modern adult pagans
NeoNote — Not slur words
Sunday, 04Aug2019
Before you can do one simple task, you have to do another task that gives you what you need to do the first. And before you can do the second, there is a third and fourth that you really should take care of.
Read More...Comments
NeoNote — For your own good
Wednesday, 24Apr2019
It means I watch for the exceptions where neither IS nor IS NOT applies. It means our understanding is limited by our perception and assumptions at the moment.
Read More...NeoNote — the American compromise
Tuesday, 16Apr2019
Personally I'd be willing to live and let live with Christians.
Sunday, 24Mar2019
❝I don't understand why any group should change their language, practices, customs or actions when the shooter was not part of the group or the community.❞Read More...
NeoNote — This tragedy does not reflect on Heathens.
Sunday, 24Mar2019
“In which John compares and contrasts Greek civilization and the Persian Empire. Of course we're glad that Greek civilization spawned modern western civilization, right? Maybe not. From Socrates and Plato to Darius and Xerxes, John explains two of the great powers of the ancient world, all WITHOUT the use of footage from 300.”
Read More...NeoNotes — Rape culture
Thursday, 21Feb2019
❝Rape is a terrible thing. Pagans and heathens have had more than our share of bad apples. We tend to attract the outliers and nonconformists.
But, America is not a rape culture. I won't speak for Europe. Not anymore.
The #MeToo movement never could have happened in a rape culture. It would not have been allowed. There would not be news stories about rape. Men would not be willing to talk to women about consent and mutual pleasure from sex. Nor would women have the right to own property, to vote, and to accuse rapists.
I bet that for every one person in America that thinks rape is acceptable, I can find thousands who don't. In those thousands, I bet that I can find hundreds who might decide a very physical response was appropriate. Personally I think removing body parts might be a good start.
By all means, do as you will to raise awareness of consent. Do what you can so people can enjoy sex with someone they care about. Respect each other and each other's boundaries.
But America is not a rape culture.
Thinking about it, that may be what bothers me most.
I firmly believe that most people are decent. I think I resent the implication that most men and women (yes, I said women) can't be trusted to behave themselves. There are always going to be bad elements, but most people are basically good no matter what their "race," gender, sexuality, or taste in socks. I resent the implication that people basically can't be trusted.
I think one of my pass-alongs sums it up.
“The people who pay attention to the law aren't the ones you have to worry about.”
Pardon, but I think there is a difference between rapes occurring and rape culture.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but I think a rape culture actively and legally encourages rape. The examples that leap to mind are certain Islamic groups and nations.
We have thieves, but we do not live in a theft culture. We have murders, but we do not live in a murdering culture.
Rape is a terrible thing and absolutely should be punished. But not every person is a rapist, nor is every man. Today women are much more likely to be believed if they report a rape, that wasn't necessarily true twenty or thirty years ago. At the same time, I read about some of the things happening in Europe and Africa right now (even leaving out the Middle East) and I don't think American women have the slightest idea what a real rape culture is.
It's easy to toss the phrase around, but that doesn't mean it's accurate.
That isn't the case with most of American society and culture.
I will grant you that is glamorized and celebrated by certain very visible people. I also think that some if not most "feminist allies" call themselves that and say the "right" things so they can take advantage.
What I see is the assumptions and punitive measures taken against people (men & women) who don't rape or even think about it. And then I see abusive behavior excused if the person happens to have the right politics or connections, like what happened prior to #MeToo.
It's not even a matter of "all men are rapists." Almost all men aren't rapists and would be horrified if it happened to someone they know, much less care for. At the same time, men are castigated if they dare give an admiring look, or actually hold a door open for somebody.❞
NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
NeoNote — First lesson
Sunday, 09Dec2018
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Read More...Will this solve the problem?
Tuesday, 27Nov2018
The Moral Guardians® have taken for themselves the exclusive power to decide who will and will not be heard. Or read. Or even mentioned.
Read More...NeoNote — Taking a stand against politics in paganism
Tuesday, 27Nov2018
❝I'm pretty sure that the World can take care of Herself❞
Friday, 23Nov2018
NeoNote — Where do pagans fit in?
Thursday, 22Nov2018
Ro3 № 18
Wednesday, 21Nov2018
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Read More...Discussion on morality, sex, nudity, and pagan festivals
Monday, 19Nov2018
That's what I do.
Friday, 16Nov2018
Duality and non-duality
Wednesday, 14Nov2018
Revived - November 9, 2018
Friday, 09Nov2018
As always, the most recently converted entries are at the top of the list at the 3rd Yearnings tag page.
These blog entries have been reformatted and entered into the current directories. Redirect pages have been placed in the old locations.
These blog entries have been reformatted and entered into the current directories. Redirect pages have been placed in the old locations.
Sometimes the sad songs do help
Spells for Democracy?
Myth ruminations
“I dare you to do it better!”
orAdventures in Mythmaking
Meant to be used
On the Threefold Law of Return
A Rule of Three
The Gods Do Not Vote
Monday, 05Nov2018
The Gods Do Not Vote, So Why Are You Asking Them?“Meanwhile, I see some Pagans convinced that they know how the gods vote — or would vote, if they could produce a photo ID at the polling place.
Are these the same Pagans who sneer at that subset of evangelical Christians who apparently think that Jesus is a Republican?
If you are really a polytheist, then you must accept that the gods do not vote. Their values are not always aligned with our day-to-day political values. Really, what does Aphrodite care about Colorado’s proposal to change the redistricting process or about who wins the race for Pueblo County coroner? Should I consult Hekate about my congressional candidates?”
Doing something positive in the world
Thursday, 01Nov2018
Unoriginal
Tuesday, 30Oct2018
Some people have noticed that I use the same responses again and again.
That's because I keep having the same conversations again and again.
If it plays in Peoria, it will probably work in Flagstaff.
I like talking to people who make me think. But if it's the same people, they usually tell me the same things. And most of the rest don't think for themselves, they just regurgitate what they have been told is the the right thing to say.
I recycle a lot of what I say because I can't come up with an original response to the same stuff all the time.
If you want an original response, tell me something original. Or at least something I haven't heard before.
That's because I keep having the same conversations again and again.
If it plays in Peoria, it will probably work in Flagstaff.
I like talking to people who make me think. But if it's the same people, they usually tell me the same things. And most of the rest don't think for themselves, they just regurgitate what they have been told is the the right thing to say.
I recycle a lot of what I say because I can't come up with an original response to the same stuff all the time.
If you want an original response, tell me something original. Or at least something I haven't heard before.
How does it make the World better?
Tuesday, 30Oct2018
Rewritten.
This has been the year of politics. Even more, it's been the year of Pagan politics, with Doomsayers announcing that the Current Administration is a threat to paganism, women, children, world peace, climate, and the price of organic rice.
Codswallop.
Years ago I chose to separate my politics from my paganism. Lately I've been trying to separate sex around me from politics. We know that politics corrupts. I've no desire to see my faith enslaved to the cause of the day. And I really don't want to give control of my sex drive to the activists. It's not a circus where we all go home safe and sound afterwards.
It's not a fantasy epic. As John Halstead pointed out, fantasy epics are adolescent. Not even thinking, it's desire unleashed. We're not the Ones Chosen By Destiny to Triumph Over Overwelming Evil.
"Me, ME, ME, ME!"
Any blood paid wouldn't be theirs.
We're people, not legends.
The real world, the mundane world, the everyday World isn't like that. Real heroes make a stand, knowing that the price may be more than they can pay. But these poseurs? These wanna-be Big Name Pagans? These shallow sorta victim types? What's heroic about that? It's wish fulfillment. They will never be satisfied. They never see beyond the next moment of What Could Be, if everything goes the way they want. If nothing goes wrong…
Real change in the real world costs blood, sweat, and tears. It means thinking about tomorrow and the week after that. It means accepting the consequences for your actions. It means knowing that big changes start with small changes, not grand gestures. It means something beyond the fantasy.
Let's say there were these hot, uninhibited, possibly bisexual and very well developed 15 year old twins that lived over on the next block. Now there's a part of me that would look at them and think "me FUCK now!!!".
But that isn't an adult thing to do. Leaving aside the social consequences of boinking two underage girls, just what is going to happen next? What do we talk about between sessions? Do I feed them in the morning? Who cooks? If they mess up the bathroom, do I take time away from screwing to clean it up? Would they want to fuck me? Or is it only about my desire? What happens next week? Would I want them back? Would they want me back? When does this little fantasy stop being about me? When does this become something we share and can build on? Beyond the moment, is there something more?
How does it make the World better?
So when I read about the very public hexing of a Supreme Court justice, I see some very adolescent behavior. It's not that the hex couldn't be effective (although not the way it was set up). I just have to wonder what is the point? All those people doing the hexing weren't wronged. But they were making a very public statement that they AS PAGANS WE ARE NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT.
Maybe they should try sitting.
And maybe listening.
Is there something they can share? Or is it only about their desire?
We know what they want. They want a Grand Crusade Against Injustice. They want to make a difference in the World and be acknowledged for the good that did. With no risk to themselves and no consequences for their choices. They are Pagan. They are Proud. They are Morally Superior. They want you to know that. They are Those Who Want to Be Noticed, who MUST be celebrated for the stand they took against the fuddy-duddy crowds that said no. But what is pagan about it?
While all this serves the ego, what does it have to do with the sunrise?
How does it make the World better?
This isn't the change we should be making. This is selfish. This is about as far away from the natural World as we can get. It's not about harmony and understanding, it's about threats and demands against our fellow humans. It's about cultivating resentment. It's about driving barriers between us. It's about destruction for the sake of destruction.
How does it make the World better?
It doesn't.
Don't be a great Pagan. Just be a great human.
Be the best human you can be. Leave the World a little better than how you found it. Find something good you can share.
Codswallop.
Years ago I chose to separate my politics from my paganism. Lately I've been trying to separate sex around me from politics. We know that politics corrupts. I've no desire to see my faith enslaved to the cause of the day. And I really don't want to give control of my sex drive to the activists. It's not a circus where we all go home safe and sound afterwards.
It's not a fantasy epic. As John Halstead pointed out, fantasy epics are adolescent. Not even thinking, it's desire unleashed. We're not the Ones Chosen By Destiny to Triumph Over Overwelming Evil.
"Me, ME, ME, ME!"
Any blood paid wouldn't be theirs.
We're people, not legends.
The real world, the mundane world, the everyday World isn't like that. Real heroes make a stand, knowing that the price may be more than they can pay. But these poseurs? These wanna-be Big Name Pagans? These shallow sorta victim types? What's heroic about that? It's wish fulfillment. They will never be satisfied. They never see beyond the next moment of What Could Be, if everything goes the way they want. If nothing goes wrong…
Real change in the real world costs blood, sweat, and tears. It means thinking about tomorrow and the week after that. It means accepting the consequences for your actions. It means knowing that big changes start with small changes, not grand gestures. It means something beyond the fantasy.
Let's say there were these hot, uninhibited, possibly bisexual and very well developed 15 year old twins that lived over on the next block. Now there's a part of me that would look at them and think "me FUCK now!!!".
But that isn't an adult thing to do. Leaving aside the social consequences of boinking two underage girls, just what is going to happen next? What do we talk about between sessions? Do I feed them in the morning? Who cooks? If they mess up the bathroom, do I take time away from screwing to clean it up? Would they want to fuck me? Or is it only about my desire? What happens next week? Would I want them back? Would they want me back? When does this little fantasy stop being about me? When does this become something we share and can build on? Beyond the moment, is there something more?
How does it make the World better?
So when I read about the very public hexing of a Supreme Court justice, I see some very adolescent behavior. It's not that the hex couldn't be effective (although not the way it was set up). I just have to wonder what is the point? All those people doing the hexing weren't wronged. But they were making a very public statement that they AS PAGANS WE ARE NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT.
Maybe they should try sitting.
And maybe listening.
Is there something they can share? Or is it only about their desire?
We know what they want. They want a Grand Crusade Against Injustice. They want to make a difference in the World and be acknowledged for the good that did. With no risk to themselves and no consequences for their choices. They are Pagan. They are Proud. They are Morally Superior. They want you to know that. They are Those Who Want to Be Noticed, who MUST be celebrated for the stand they took against the fuddy-duddy crowds that said no. But what is pagan about it?
While all this serves the ego, what does it have to do with the sunrise?
How does it make the World better?
This isn't the change we should be making. This is selfish. This is about as far away from the natural World as we can get. It's not about harmony and understanding, it's about threats and demands against our fellow humans. It's about cultivating resentment. It's about driving barriers between us. It's about destruction for the sake of destruction.
How does it make the World better?
It doesn't.
Don't be a great Pagan. Just be a great human.
Be the best human you can be. Leave the World a little better than how you found it. Find something good you can share.
NeoNote — Change the groups
Thursday, 25Oct2018
“Everything must go somewhere.”— Barry Commoner, second law of ecology
❝ trying to make my way in a monotheistic world…❞
Thursday, 25Oct2018
Read More..."The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."— Lewis Carrol,
Through the Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There
NeoNote — I don't think politics should be a part of paganism
Wednesday, 24Oct2018
“But yes, this is between you and him.”— Shawn Herles, comments from Pagan Community Notes: exorcism and hexing, Canada Pagan community, Michigan Scholarship Fund, and more.
❝I'd rather not deal with him at all.
I don't think politics should be a part of paganism.
I know that puts me in direct opposition to the "the personal is political" crowd. I know this isn't a political site. I'd rather not see politics here at all.
There are reasons I separated my political blogging from my pagan blogging. There are reasons why there is no "politics" category at my pagan/life blog and there is only a tag for "ugh-politics" there.
Politics corrupt, especially religion. We know that from the People of the Book. Why on Earth are we so damned determined to prove it again?❞❝When you let your politics define your personhood, there's not much room left for your personhood outside of your politics. Without your personhood, you can lose empathy and humanity.❞— label
NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
The pedestal problem
Tuesday, 23Oct2018
❝I am Pagan because I was born that way, and because I made that choice long before I was born.❞— NeoWayland, Why are you Pagan?
NeoNote — Religion & responsiblity
Monday, 01Oct2018
NeoNote — Good and evil
Monday, 24Sep2018
❝Obviously I am not heathen, but I question that phrase "forces of darkness." Our World has both light and darkness, both are necessary for life, death, growth and renewal.
Perhaps it is just me, but I have issues with assigning good to light and evil to darkness. I probably have issues with the dualistic ideas of good and evil too. Sometimes what is "evil" for one group is "good" for another. If they are anything like the ones I've argued with, your "extreme right ideologies" probably see inclusiveness as very evil and damaging. I disagree, but it is their "evil."
Ah, now that is an interesting bit.
Bonewits pointed out that dualism, especially religious dualism, quickly shifts things to IS and IS NOT. If something IS NOT on the approved list, it is evil because the definitions and underlying assumptions don't allow any other possibility.
Long story short, without monotheism, the meaning of good and evil aren't so clear cut. It tends to be more in the nature of "this HELPS my tribe/city/nation" and "this HURTS my tribe/city/nation." It becomes relative and based on cost/benefit. It depends more on individual judgement and less on an Official List of "THOU SHALT NOTS."
But, since Bonewits is on the Disapproved List, this is just academic, right? An accused sexual predator and pedophile couldn't possibly have had good ideas…
I disagree.
I agree that unrestrained greed and unrestrained tribalism are bad. But so is unrestrained sex, unrestrained pacifism, unrestrained sugar, unrestrained sunbathing, unrestrained hair dyeing, unrestrained television, and unrestrained concrete. A little goes a long way, or as the old saying goes, moderation in all things.
Competition keeps us honest and is one big reason why we try to make things better.
*grins* I may bring the philosophy bit out. I enjoy it, I practice it, and I encourage it.
I was thinking about the Greeks and some of the philosophy of the Golden Mean, although the Buddhist version applies too.
Specifically I was thinking about self-discipline and responsibility. The Ethic of Reciprocity is usually associated with Christianity but predates Christianity and exists independently in other cultures. One of my party tricks is showing how people can build an entire social, ethical, and legal system using the EoR and without depending on authority granted from an Official Religion. And that brings us to unrestrained.
If we are talking about ethical restraints, those restraints have to be self-imposed. It's not really ethical otherwise. If a choice is imposed by force, it's not really a choice, is it?
Self-restraint goes right back to the EoR. If I want to be treated right, it's in my best interest to treat others right. We expect others to act morally and honorably. That gets into defining the Other which is a long subject. I'm going to skip that for our discussion here.
Every morning I have a glass of citrus juice with my breakfast. But it's a water glass, not a juice glass. Is that excessive? Some might say so. But it's my breakfast and my choice. As long as I am not depriving or harming others, then how is it anyone else's business?
That brings us to greed. If I want to continue having OJ, somehow I have to do something that someone else wants and is willing to pay for. With the division of labor, that becomes the free market. Voluntary exchanges between mutually consenting adults. To get what I want, I have to provide something they want.
Competition brings the second keystone of the free market: I can do better than that! Most fail, but the successes change everything.
You're absolutely right pointing out that competition doesn't mean destroying the other (odd how that word keeps cropping up). But the free market means that a company or person has to offer at least as much value as those around them, or someone else will sell.
It's not just buying and selling. Most people reading this site chose paganism or an alternative religion because that religion offered something that they couldn't get elsewhere.
One of the things I recently added to my lexicon, the two most important phrases in human history (www DOT neowayland DOT com SLASH lexicon SLASH tt SLASH #two)
“Let me help.”
“I can do better than that!”
And yes, I gave credit to Star Trek for the first.❞
NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
NeoNote — #MeToo has hit modern neopaganism hard
Sunday, 23Sep2018
Paganism isn't a movement
Monday, 17Sep2018
NeoNote - White sage, Amerindians and virtue signalling
Sunday, 09Sep2018
❝White sage is really not that hard to find. You need a little care when harvesting to avoid harming the plant. If you're in the right area and you don't overwater, it's fairly easy to keep in a container garden. Oh, and if you're harvesting your own, avoid polyester thread or yarn to tie the bundles, that smells terrible when burned.
I grew up next to the Diné and Hopi and near the Havasupai and a handful of other tribes. I promise that pretty much any sage ceremony from a book or a pamphlet or a website isn't anywhere near culturally appropriated, much less "authentic."
Okay, maybe I am not understanding because the stuff is all over New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if it was a native supplier who was selling, how is wrong for the company to resell?
I never really have understood the whole cultural appropriation bit. Syncretism happens.
Pardon, but it's some of the First Nation folks. Some of the Diné I know are far more concerned with the abuse of corn rituals than sage rituals.
I guess what I am saying is that this strikes me as politics, a way to control other's behaviors using little-understood religions. Look at this, we're talking Native, we're talking First Nations, but these groups are absolutely not the same as the various tribes.
This was acceptable and practiced behavior a couple of days ago. No one was hurt, no one was abused, no one was demeaned. From what you yourself have said, anyone who is not Native should Stop Now. This isn't about honoring the First Nations, it's about control through guilt.❝Why does your enlightenment require that I sacrifice?❞
Granted I haven't been able to talk to more than a handful of people in the last day or so about this issue, but most of what I got was laughter.
This is not a "bubble," I was born on the res, the Diné and Hopi are some of my friends and neighbors.
This whole thing about honoring the First Nations seems very selective. A few months back during the Dakota protests I tried to point out how the state of Utah was using legal maneuvers to steal land and money from the Ute and Diné (Navajo). That didn't rate so much as a burp, but the discussion on the protests went on and on.
Trust me, white sage is not endangered. Not even in the wild. The land is mostly desert and the plant life is not as plentiful, but it is all over the place. It's not the most common plant, but it's not rare.
That's something else we've been tiptoeing around, isn't it?
That also drags the FedGovs in. Truthfully there are some peyote users that aren't interested in the ritual.
The whole mess between the NAC and the Feds is one thing that convinced me that government and religion should be strictly separated from other. And that was when I was (briefly) a Young Teenage Republican Male. Twelve years old and I could see what a farce it was on both sides.
Well, the hunt is part of the ritual, but yeah.
==>Insert obligatory lengthy libertarian anti-drug law rant here<==
For the record, I don't even drink or otherwise imbibe. I even try to avoid aspirin.
So you can use the higher authority gambit to cite the Good Amerindians, but I am not allowed to question?
These are questions that should be asked.
Starting with the big one that almost everyone keeps tiptoeing around. Why should white sage be forbidden to anyone not of First Nations stock?
That in itself raises questions, very political questions in fact. Some tribes have taken a hard line on who is and is not a member.
Do you have to be Officially Recognized before you dare consider using white sage?
I do that when someone claims higher morality so they can control the choices and actions of others.
It's a first step.
You should see what I do with self-righteous Christians.
Pardon, but some Native Americans are upset. The (admittedly few) that I talked to just thought it was silly.
They still think the plant and the smudging ceremonies are sacred. They just think there are more important things in the World than this fuss.
Which, BTW, didn't exist a week ago.
I have a bit of a problem with lumping different tribes under one heading like First Nations or Native or Amerindian. Whenever possible, I prefer to refer to the tribe name and not the generic label. The cultures and ceremonies are different.
That being said, the handful of Diné I talked in the last couple of days thought this was silly and virtue signaling. I think they were more irritated by "whites" trying to "protect" Amerindian rituals and plants than "whites" using sage in purification rituals.
It was only a small number of people. It would be a mistake to claim their opinion is representative or that I have a greater understanding of their culture.
But that's parity again. It cuts both ways. If the people I talked to are not representative, then what about the Amerindians who complained? If my understanding is insufficient, then what about all the non-Natives who are making a fuss now?
That happens a lot.
Thomas Sowell said “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.”
Just because it is truth doesn't mean people will listen.❞
NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
NeoNote — Not about paganism
Thursday, 23Aug2018
Condemnation of memory
Tuesday, 21Aug2018
Worst experiences with paganism
Thursday, 16Aug2018
Love & sex
Thursday, 09Aug2018
“How do you remove the memory of a particularly bad emperor from the history books? Or what if your brother is just so annoying that you can't stand the sight of him anymore, and don't want to share power? You perform a damnatio memoriae, erase all inscriptions, destroy all public images, and pretend as if he never existed.”
Read More...“Damnatio Memoriae, or How to Erase Someone from History”
Wednesday, 08Aug2018
Anti-Christian
Friday, 03Aug2018
“Ragnarok! It's the end of the world, Norse style. It's got everything you want in an apocalypse. Earthquakes, destruction, armies of the dead, a giant evil wolf, giants with flaming swords, and a kind of happy ending. It's got it all. But is it really Norse? It wasn't written down until after Christianity had arrived in Europe. So how much influence is there?”
Read More...In the name of inclusion
Sunday, 22Jul2018
“Anthony Howe has been sculpting kinetic structures for nearly 30 years. In 1996, he filled his own sculpture park with metallic pieces that dance in the wind. His work has even appeared at the 2016 Rio Olympics and the holiday display for Barneys in NYC! Howe hopes his artwork gives viewers a moment of semi-meditative peace.”
Read More...It's only shame if I accept the premise.
Sunday, 08Jul2018
NeoNotes — Diversity
Wednesday, 28Mar2018
NeoNotes — Defending my faith (the long one)
Friday, 23Mar2018
❝I hadn't heard of the "well poisoner" bit, although obviously I heard about "poisoner." There are certain bits that I don't let folks get away with, like the "unbroken matriarchal tradition" or "Never again the Burning Times"
I try to give Christians the benefit of the doubt, mainly because I expect the same. Some make it harder than others (Bob Barr). Live and let live works mostly.
Anyway, I'll go back to my books now.
Satanists are not witches, usually.
One does not like being labeled as the other.
Sort of like comparing an intramural softball team to a volunteer soup kitchen. There are similarities but there are far more differences.
And I've seen extremely energetic discussions why they aren't the same thing. I even agree with most of it, Satanism is usually more self-focused.
As far as the "eternal destination," no one This Side knows.
Which is almost certainly the point of being This Side.
Actually you don't.
You know that I don't like labels and that I prefer to live and let live. You know I think humans are mostly good, given half a chance and a few kind words.
But part of my path means I don't casually share the Names of my gods. It's part of how I honor them.
It's not your place to judge, and it certainly isn't your place to allow me anything.
It's literally between me and the Divine. Your own book teaches that.
Parity. Simple parity. You don't want your stuff questioned by me, don't try to impose it on me. Live & let live. You're not a gatekeeper no matter how hard you try.
I'd like to make this World just a little better than I found it. Where is it "written" that is wrong?
It's not complicated. It doesn't require Divine evaluation.
There you go again, trying to assume authority that was never yours.
There's nothing in that special handbook that gives Christians power over other humans.
I won't bow before your belief, just as you won't bow before mine. You can't require that of me and I can't require that of you.
Parity.
Pardon, but I didn't say anything about forcing. That's not why I'm objecting.
He's disputing my beliefs because he doesn't share them. Nothing wrong with that. But then he attempts to put his beliefs over mine without logic, but faith. He'd be screaming bloody murder if I tried the same thing.
I don't allow it when the climate change crowd tries. I don't allow it when the RadFems try. And I don't allow it when certain Christians try. Not because I disagree, but because no one has the power to dictate faith.
I pointed out that no one This Side knew what the "eternal destination" was.
I pointed out that QM wants me to put his faith over mine."But that doesn't mean we have to stop trying to warn you.""The only judgment he made was that God suffers you to live."
Both those were yours I think.
Pardon, but both those were taken from your replies."The key, however, is the eternal destination is the same…"
That was QM, above.
Absent proof, my belief is as valid as his. That was my point.
And NONE of that matters This Side, where it's up to us to Manifest the Divine in a way that hopefully makes the World a little better than we found it.
You and he are nitpicking about the afterlife when we should be focusing on the here and now.
Oh my, that is just too funny!
Just what do you think you're doing when you continually insist your beliefs apply to me when I disagree?
Oh, and while we're at it, note that I haven't said one blessed word about what I think will happen to you after This Side.
We weren't discussing invalidating, we were discussing calling something invalid.
We also had established that using your beliefs to control others is a Bad Thing™. Just in case you hadn't noticed, my criticism of Christianity is reactive and mostly directed against certain Christians.
Celebrate your beliefs and cherish your faith. All I ask is the same. Just don't demand that my beliefs and actions are bound by yours. Live and let live.
There is a difference.
You can call something invalid, but that does not invalidate it.
And yet you're still here trying to convince me.❝Come down off your high horse.❞
This from someone who presumes that the default setting for humanity is Christianity, or at least that Christians are in the majority.
You know, one thing I haven't been able to figure out about you is why when you tell people that they should be Christian, the only reason you give is a vague threat about what "happens" to non-Christians after death.
Yes, yes, I know you're going to tell me it is not you that threatens and it is up to Christians to "warn" others.
I didn't say it was what you said, I said it was what you presumed.
Why are you so desperate for me to bow before your belief? If I didn't know better, I'd think you were threatened by my beliefs.
And of course, this discussion conveniently lets you ignore the here and now in favor of your "Christian duty."
Outside of religion, it's accepted practice to say "I disagree" and both parties move on.
However, some Christians act as if that's a full challenge.
For whatever reason, you feel you cannot allow dissent to your chosen creed. Now, the logical and respectable thing to do would be to accept that some believe differently and not "mark your territory." It would get you allies and a certain amount of leeway.
But that's not the way you're going to do it, is it?❝You need to go back and read everything I've said.❞
No, I don't think so.❝You beclown your by doing so, then whine that the other guy is doing bad things to you.❞
Actually what I do is show that when you can't handle the argument, you go after the person. It's amateurish and you can do better.❝I'm not looking for allies.❞
You should be.
So you've gone from warning to leading me "around by the nose."
Except you haven't.
You still can't address the argument, you have to go after the person..
Having dealt with some incredibly silly propaganda over the years, I beg to differ.
The first step to invalidating something is to prove it wrong.
Words matter. Actions matter more. Intentions don't.
By the way, have you noticed you're focusing on my "unbelief" and the Christian reaction? Do you remember what I said a few posts back?
❝And NONE of that matters This Side, where it's up to us to Manifest the Divine in a way that hopefully makes the World a little better than we found it.
You and he are nitpicking about the afterlife when we should be focusing on the here and now.❞
Seek paradox for truth.
What you have is an either/or trap. You believe that the conditions of your faith are such that all other faiths and belief systems must be universally false. So when I say my faith tells me different, by your conditions I am declaring your faith to be Untruth.
But by the conditions of my faith. I'm just seeing things from another perspective.
What you need to ask yourself who imposed the either/or trap? Your god? Or people claiming to speak in His Name? Why should Diety be limited by a human logical construct?
It's paradox and illogic because some of the "universal" assumptions that you use aren't exactly universal.
You can mix metric and English parts, but something is probably going to come loose and fly apart.
Assume I am making a pie.
You tell me I need apples, cinnamon, nutmeg, brown sugar, cane sugar, apples that have been cored and peeled (preferably Granny Smith but others will work in a pinch)…
But I am making a key lime pie.
Then you tell me that's not a True Pie®. And it may not be from your perspective.
But from my point of view, it works just fine. It's round, it's dessert, and my guests will enjoy it.
There's not just one type of pie.
Your belief shouldn't control what I can and can not call a pie.
Who knows? Next month I may go with my grandmother's pecan pie. It's a pain to make but absolutely delicious.
My key lime pie and my pecan pie do not negate the existence of your apple pie. Your apple pie doesn't prevent me from making my key lime pie and my pecan pie. They aren't your pies so you may not wish to call them pies, but they exist for me.
You didn't state your motive, at least not all of it.
You stated your justification.
If it were really about "warning" people, you would give your warning a few times and that would be it.
You also wouldn't try to go after another's character when they disagree with you.
This is what you do.
When you can't dismiss the argument, you go after the person. When that doesn't work, you go after the person some more.
That doesn't work with me.
Simple questions.
Would you give up your faith and your beliefs for mine?
Why should I give mine up for yours?
Will it make you a better person?
Will it give you some Divine merit points?
Why should I care about some nebulous benefit that comes to you?
Live and let live.
The questions are central to this discussion. Particularly the first two.
❝Would you give up your faith and your beliefs for mine?
Why should I give mine up for yours?❞
I'm pretty sure if you think about those questions, you'll discover what "live and let live" means.
I've told you before that my faith and beliefs are at least as important to me as yours are to you.
You wouldn't stand for someone like me telling you what and how to worship.
Parity.
Live and let live.
No, you are insisting that your beliefs trump mine.
I'm telling you they don't.
I never take anyone's word alone for their motives. I always include their actions.
Guess which I place more importance on.
Guess which tells me more.❝He is the only reality.❞
You believe that, but you have no proof other than faith.
I do not believe as you do.
I have my own beliefs, they are at least as real to me as yours are to you.
I've no proof other than faith.
Live and let live.
Neighbor.❝You do in deed have "faith" but it is not faith based on a firm foundation.❞
As opposed to you?
Who are you to judge what is a "firm foundation?"
Why do you assume you have that power?❝Go back and digest what I said earlier.❞
Why? Would you do that if I demanded that you do it with what I wrote?❝I don't "assume" to have any power.❞
Again, your own words prove my point better than I could. You're here now, trying to disprove what I wrote, unleashing your "big guns." That's an awful lot of trouble to take against one man who is seriously outnumbered and hasn't really done anything except write "I disagree."
The main point I make is that there are different faiths and it's wrong to act as if Christianity controls the others.
You wouldn't stand for it if someone tried to do that to Christianity.
Parity.
Live and let live.
Very simple.
Again, it's live and let live.
Not the strange rewrite that you keep pushing, but the simple idea.
I have my belief, you have yours. As long as you don't keep insisting that your belief governs mine, there's no problem.
It's your insecurity that makes this happen.
Through each of our every discussions, I've never criticized Christianity. It's always been specific followers.
Except you have.
Every single time you trotted out your afterlife threat. Every single time you've insisted that people with other faiths are bound by Christian rules. Every time you've insisted on deference for Christianity while dismissing other faiths.
Can you show how your "firm foundation" is better than mine?
In fact, let's take it one step further.
Can you give me ANYTHING except a vague threat about the afterlife to tell me what a good thing Christianity is and how it is better than my faith?
I've never seen you do that, you know. You recite plenty of afterlife threats, but never any benefits This Side.
I've never seen you do it for anyone you disagree with.
Always with the threats.
Never with the wonders.
Certainly something to think about.
You still haven't established how your "firm foundation" is better than mine.
So now we've come back to where it all began.
Your problem is that you want me to put your faith first and I tell you "no" because I have something else.
No other reason.
You can't tell me the wonders of Christianity, you can only claim that my faith is lacking because it is not Christian.
That is just sad.
ETA: Okay, that was awkwardly worded. Let's try again.
But you still can't bring yourself to say what the wonders are.❝I'm not telling you how, or what, to worship. I've simply pointed out the warnings of the consequences of rejecting Christ.❞
Behold the contradiction.
Or the paradox if you prefer.
As I told RHW above, if there's a paradox, chances are pretty good at least one of your core assumptions is wrong.
He can claim Biblical justification all he wants, but he needs something other than "the Bible told me so." If that's all he got, then his faith is no different than mine, is it?
He may believe that it's more, but he can't control my belief. That's why he trots out "my God suffers you to live."
Instead of looking at the World and how we might make a difference, he presumes his faith gives him the power to give judgement, even as he denies the judgement is his.
And if anyone disputes it, well, it's Holy Writ, isn't it?
It certainly has very little to do with the message of the Bible.
Unfortunately this is not my first or thirteenth dance with QM, we have a history. He has in fact at different times done everything you said he hasn't done on this specific thread.
I'd still prefer live and let live. Which means not publicly insisting that the tenants of your faith control the actions of others. It also means finding a common morality without putting one religion over all others.
Is it more important that I acknowledge that "the Bible is Holy Writ," or is it more important that I agree that government mandated and funded abortion is A Really Bad Thing™?
Which is more practical?
That's the thing. You and others believe that the Bible is "Holy Writ," but that doesn't make it so.
I happen to think there are some good ideas there, but I don't think it's particularly holy.
Now we can get hung up on my "unbelief" and Christian reaction to it, or we can find things we do agree on and work from there.
Again, which is more practical?
And why do you feel compelled to speak for your God? Did he call you on the phone? Was there a registered letter?
More importantly, how does that get us closer to agreeing?
My faith and beliefs are at least as important to me as yours are to you."The Almighty, however, probably has a different perspective on what you believe."
Beats the usual. Most Christians just cite chapter and verse.
Nothing wrong with that PROVIDED you don't use it to try to control others.
And yes, I know Christians are supposed to spread the news. However, Christians don't appreciate it when others do it to them.
Parity. Or the Golden Rule, if you prefer.
*shrugs* Which is why I don't usually make it except under very specific circumstances.
Some Christians insist that the rules defined by their religion are universal and everyone must comply or else.
I disagree. That's usually when I'm accused of attacking Christianity."Neither of us have accused you of attacking anyone."
Give QM time."Listen to us or don't, that's your choice."
Stars above, if only it were that simple."But that doesn't mean we have to stop trying to warn you."
And if you only did it once each or once each per thread, that would be great.
But I didn't lie.
As for the afterlife, you have your belief and I have mine. No one This Side knows.
You were the one who took exception to that statement."You are your source of authority."
No, I'm not.
Perhaps what frustrates you most is that you can't denounce my faith without undermining your own. At the end of the day, we don't have anything but our faith. Mine is just as valid as yours by every "objective" measure you trot out.
Live and let live. Why is that so hard for you to accept?
My posts "reveal" that I answer to an authority different than yours.
I never claimed an "objective" standard. Truths are incredibly subjective.
How many times have I told you that a man is measured in the lives he touches?
That's not exactly about the self, is it?
Of course it is not you that threaten, it is your God. He just sits down at your keyboard and types away.
That tells me is that you don't know your God very well.
Yep, too many people are into religion for the politics.
No, you believe that the Bible is God-inspired. So do a lot of other people. That doesn't make it "objectively true." Especially since it is the most heavily edited, redacted, and revised book in history. Remarkably well preserved, but still.
What I "fessed up to" was that I didn't remember the Hebrew that I studied briefly for a few months about three decades ago. Since I don't use Hebrew regularly, that's hardly surprising.
Again, if you don't like what I have to say about the Bible, stop insisting that I am bound by it. Even Christians are extremely selective when it comes to the portions they use.
ETA: I don't think the Christian message was ever intended to be confined to dusty writings.❞
NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
NeoNotes — accusation
Monday, 19Mar2018
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
Tainted frisson
Tuesday, 27Feb2018
We've not had one of these in a while, have we?
I've been busy, but that is not the reason. Politics has tainted paganism in my mind and I am working to re-establish the separation.
Paganism is about the relationship between you, the World, and the Divine. Politics is not a part of that.
This author is Officially Approved this week, but that doesn't mean anything about next week. Next week it may be old fashioned. The week after there may be some scandal as defined by Today's Morality that wasn't immoral when it happened. If it happened.
This isn't new. One of my favorite symbols is the wheeled cross. But it has white supremacist connotations, so I can't use it in "public" pagan discussion. Never mind that it makes more sense to me than the pentagram. It's racist. Off limits. Not allowed.
Sex play and flirting that was allowed a decade or so ago is now denounced. And everyone who participated is expected to abase themselves before the new morality.
As this leaks more and more into how pagans act, it's less about paganism and more about doing the "right thing." Enforcing the echo chambers. Closing out dissent or contrasting opinions. Expelling all that might be tainted by immorality or evil. Part of it is politics, but it goes beyond that.
Some pagans want to change paganism from an experienced faith to a revealed faith. Something with all the bumps and twists and turns ironed out. No unexpected surprises. Nothing not previously declared. No uncomfortable truths. No juice. No frisson. Everything nice and neat and perfectly defined.
The experience has been sanitized for your protection. Truth will be revealed, but only if you do as you are told.
It has been approved by the powers-that-wanna-be.
Not necessarily the gods.
It's politics, not faith.
Some things will be revealed. If you pay attention and ask the proper questions. In the proper order. And no more. Politics will advance you more in this new pagan faith than experience.
Except those people aren't really a part of paganism.
It's about your Journey. Not about their Story.
Paganism is about the experience. The juicy, sexy, messy, screwed up experience that you struggle to make a part of your life. It's about embracing the passion. It's about where the gods point you. It's about finding and living your own way.
Paganism is about the relationship between you, the World, and the Divine. It can't be revealed, it can only be experienced.
Will you live it?
Or will you avoid the taint?
I've been busy, but that is not the reason. Politics has tainted paganism in my mind and I am working to re-establish the separation.
Paganism is about the relationship between you, the World, and the Divine. Politics is not a part of that.
This author is Officially Approved this week, but that doesn't mean anything about next week. Next week it may be old fashioned. The week after there may be some scandal as defined by Today's Morality that wasn't immoral when it happened. If it happened.
This isn't new. One of my favorite symbols is the wheeled cross. But it has white supremacist connotations, so I can't use it in "public" pagan discussion. Never mind that it makes more sense to me than the pentagram. It's racist. Off limits. Not allowed.
Sex play and flirting that was allowed a decade or so ago is now denounced. And everyone who participated is expected to abase themselves before the new morality.
As this leaks more and more into how pagans act, it's less about paganism and more about doing the "right thing." Enforcing the echo chambers. Closing out dissent or contrasting opinions. Expelling all that might be tainted by immorality or evil. Part of it is politics, but it goes beyond that.
Some pagans want to change paganism from an experienced faith to a revealed faith. Something with all the bumps and twists and turns ironed out. No unexpected surprises. Nothing not previously declared. No uncomfortable truths. No juice. No frisson. Everything nice and neat and perfectly defined.
The experience has been sanitized for your protection. Truth will be revealed, but only if you do as you are told.
It has been approved by the powers-that-wanna-be.
Not necessarily the gods.
It's politics, not faith.
Some things will be revealed. If you pay attention and ask the proper questions. In the proper order. And no more. Politics will advance you more in this new pagan faith than experience.
Except those people aren't really a part of paganism.
It's about your Journey. Not about their Story.
Paganism is about the experience. The juicy, sexy, messy, screwed up experience that you struggle to make a part of your life. It's about embracing the passion. It's about where the gods point you. It's about finding and living your own way.
Paganism is about the relationship between you, the World, and the Divine. It can't be revealed, it can only be experienced.
Will you live it?
Or will you avoid the taint?
NeoNotes — Perception and symbols
Tuesday, 06Feb2018
Summing up the circus
Saturday, 20Jan2018
“Our own heart, and not other men's opinions, forms our true honor.”
NeoNotes — A long hard look
Wednesday, 17Jan2018
❝Sending kids to "get religion" instead of practicing it with them is one of the surest setups for failure I know.❞
Slice it
Tuesday, 16Jan2018
More and more I'm convinced that I was smart to (mostly) separate my political blogging from my pagan blogging.
Anyway you slice it, politics is about controlling other people. What that has to do with the dawn or the coyote's howl drifting through the night is anyone's guess.
When pagans jump up to recite approved scripts to this week's Officially Designated Outrage, they make paganism look silly.
I think it grew out of when paganism was part of the American counterculture. Pagans had to rebel against established mores. Existing culture wasn't good enough, it had to be replaced even if the replacement didn't work. In the 80s it got worse. Pagans became moralistic busybodies when it came to the Earth, and of course when it came to minorities.
But what does that have to do with the Dark Moon or the chill of the night air? What does that have to do with a winter rain or the clouds as they stretch to cover the sky? What does that have to do with a vigil kept in front of the fire all night?
That's paganism.
It's almost sunrise. I'm going to share some oranges with my friend the raven.
Anyway you slice it, politics is about controlling other people. What that has to do with the dawn or the coyote's howl drifting through the night is anyone's guess.
When pagans jump up to recite approved scripts to this week's Officially Designated Outrage, they make paganism look silly.
I think it grew out of when paganism was part of the American counterculture. Pagans had to rebel against established mores. Existing culture wasn't good enough, it had to be replaced even if the replacement didn't work. In the 80s it got worse. Pagans became moralistic busybodies when it came to the Earth, and of course when it came to minorities.
But what does that have to do with the Dark Moon or the chill of the night air? What does that have to do with a winter rain or the clouds as they stretch to cover the sky? What does that have to do with a vigil kept in front of the fire all night?
That's paganism.
It's almost sunrise. I'm going to share some oranges with my friend the raven.
In defense of Bonewits' work
Monday, 15Jan2018
Since the reddit comments on my blog entry saying that I don't think Isaac Bonewits abused Moria Greyland, this site has been labeled as "supporting abusers."
Over the years I've developed a small reputation for straight talk and honest answers about sex, particularly sex in a pagan context. My two personal carved-in-stone sex rules are consenting adults and you're off limits if you promised to be someone else's "one and only." I believe that those two rules cover most of the sexual issues in American society. I've recently added two more. "Regret does not equal rape." "Acknowledge but not celebrate." These are personal rules, they affect me. I can't impose them on anyone else. But honestly, the first two cover so much of what is wrong with American sexuality that I often use them in discussions to show how messes could have been avoided. If it's not consent, it's not right. Now I could go into the why and wherefore, but that is not really relevant here. I will say that my sex category on this blog doesn't include porn. There are essays on ethical pagan sex and how responsible sex can fit into paganism. I also point out frequently that sex is not love, nudity is not sex, and love isn't nudity.
The site gallery does include nudes. With a couple of exceptions it does not include sexual nudes. And you will not find photos of nude children anywhere on the site. Many of my vintage nudes are classical pieces of art where I point out things that the artist was trying to convey.
I discourage sexual abuse and sexual misunderstanding. I condone truth, I do not condone abuse. Before the accusations against Bonewits, no one questioned that.
I have this habit of pointing out truths, even when they are uncomfortable. Look at the motto of this site. I firmly believe that I am called for veritas.
My introduction to Isaac Bonewits was in Margot Adler's Drawing Down the Moon. For a seminary dropout with magickal experience but very little formal training, it was eye-opening. His ABCDEF talked about how people were treated. Bonewits didn't focus on the "correct" Deity or if the priesthood/leadership had special "rights" beyond the membership.
Of course Bonewits wasn't the first to focus on how people were treated. But it was the first that I have ever seen that didn't start with a religion-specific context. I wore out my first copy of DDTM because I used to copy that chapter for minister friends when they asked for help. There was no web addy to hand out in those days.
Real Magic wasn't my next purchase, but I did buy it within a year or two. Rural location, a lot of road trips, no real bookstore, no internet, yeah, it took a couple of years. When I started studying, I was hooked. Here were explanations that actually fit in the real world. Bonewits credits Sir James Frazer with isolating the laws, but points out that anthropologists don't acknowledge him. Still, here was a framework where I could hang my own studies. Even when I goofed up and had to backtrack, I never had to throw out Bonewits. His stuff was just too damn useful.
That should be a law. Oh wait, it is. Bonewits calls it the Law of Pragmatism.
Were the Laws of Magic as defined by Bonewits absolute? No. But he allows for that too.
To this day, I've a poster of the laws hanging near the altar in my sanctum.
So here's the question. Now that P.E.I. Bonewits has been "shown" to have questionable character, should his work be forgotten? Should his name never again be mentioned in polite pagan company? Should we conduct a cultural scrubbing and remove any influence that Bonewits might have had?
No. I don't think so.
He was a flawed man. How flawed is still open to discussion. But his contribution to neopaganism and anthropology can't be denied. We can accept the work without accepting his sexual activities. And if his work can't stand on it's own, people will find something else.
I think removing him and his work is very close to what a fundamentalist Christian would do. I don't think the world is either/or, and neither did he. I tell people that if they tell you the choice is black or white, you should go for the fuzzy. Or maybe the minty. Reducing the choice to all or nothing means you probably overlooked some things.
For ourselves, for our understanding, we should keep Bonewits' work.
Over the years I've developed a small reputation for straight talk and honest answers about sex, particularly sex in a pagan context. My two personal carved-in-stone sex rules are consenting adults and you're off limits if you promised to be someone else's "one and only." I believe that those two rules cover most of the sexual issues in American society. I've recently added two more. "Regret does not equal rape." "Acknowledge but not celebrate." These are personal rules, they affect me. I can't impose them on anyone else. But honestly, the first two cover so much of what is wrong with American sexuality that I often use them in discussions to show how messes could have been avoided. If it's not consent, it's not right. Now I could go into the why and wherefore, but that is not really relevant here. I will say that my sex category on this blog doesn't include porn. There are essays on ethical pagan sex and how responsible sex can fit into paganism. I also point out frequently that sex is not love, nudity is not sex, and love isn't nudity.
The site gallery does include nudes. With a couple of exceptions it does not include sexual nudes. And you will not find photos of nude children anywhere on the site. Many of my vintage nudes are classical pieces of art where I point out things that the artist was trying to convey.
I discourage sexual abuse and sexual misunderstanding. I condone truth, I do not condone abuse. Before the accusations against Bonewits, no one questioned that.
I have this habit of pointing out truths, even when they are uncomfortable. Look at the motto of this site. I firmly believe that I am called for veritas.
My introduction to Isaac Bonewits was in Margot Adler's Drawing Down the Moon. For a seminary dropout with magickal experience but very little formal training, it was eye-opening. His ABCDEF talked about how people were treated. Bonewits didn't focus on the "correct" Deity or if the priesthood/leadership had special "rights" beyond the membership.
Of course Bonewits wasn't the first to focus on how people were treated. But it was the first that I have ever seen that didn't start with a religion-specific context. I wore out my first copy of DDTM because I used to copy that chapter for minister friends when they asked for help. There was no web addy to hand out in those days.
Real Magic wasn't my next purchase, but I did buy it within a year or two. Rural location, a lot of road trips, no real bookstore, no internet, yeah, it took a couple of years. When I started studying, I was hooked. Here were explanations that actually fit in the real world. Bonewits credits Sir James Frazer with isolating the laws, but points out that anthropologists don't acknowledge him. Still, here was a framework where I could hang my own studies. Even when I goofed up and had to backtrack, I never had to throw out Bonewits. His stuff was just too damn useful.
That should be a law. Oh wait, it is. Bonewits calls it the Law of Pragmatism.
Were the Laws of Magic as defined by Bonewits absolute? No. But he allows for that too.
To this day, I've a poster of the laws hanging near the altar in my sanctum.
So here's the question. Now that P.E.I. Bonewits has been "shown" to have questionable character, should his work be forgotten? Should his name never again be mentioned in polite pagan company? Should we conduct a cultural scrubbing and remove any influence that Bonewits might have had?
No. I don't think so.
He was a flawed man. How flawed is still open to discussion. But his contribution to neopaganism and anthropology can't be denied. We can accept the work without accepting his sexual activities. And if his work can't stand on it's own, people will find something else.
I think removing him and his work is very close to what a fundamentalist Christian would do. I don't think the world is either/or, and neither did he. I tell people that if they tell you the choice is black or white, you should go for the fuzzy. Or maybe the minty. Reducing the choice to all or nothing means you probably overlooked some things.
For ourselves, for our understanding, we should keep Bonewits' work.
So much for avoiding the topic
Thursday, 11Jan2018
I don't approve of older men having sex with young teens, but it has been happening from the beginning.
Read More...Bonewits accused
Wednesday, 10Jan2018
Defined
Wednesday, 03Jan2018
Organize
Wednesday, 03Jan2018
❝Faith is a personal choice. So are politics. One does not define the other.❞— NeoWayland, Paganism is not political
Walk away
Tuesday, 02Jan2018
Yesterday on a comment board I lost patience.
I could handle the backhanded compliments and schoolboy taunts.
But as I was composing a long reply, I realized I was talking about something I didn't really want to talk about. What's more, I was investing time and effort doing it.
I'll give the guy another chance maybe in three months or so.
But I don't like him, I really don't enjoy extended conversations with him, and I don't like what he brings out in me anymore.
Better to walk away.
I could handle the backhanded compliments and schoolboy taunts.
But as I was composing a long reply, I realized I was talking about something I didn't really want to talk about. What's more, I was investing time and effort doing it.
I'll give the guy another chance maybe in three months or so.
But I don't like him, I really don't enjoy extended conversations with him, and I don't like what he brings out in me anymore.
Better to walk away.
NeoNotes — Real religion
Tuesday, 26Dec2017
❝Pardon, I don't think anyone is capable of judging what is and is not a "real" religion. I can't tell you how many times certain Christians have told me that my faith isn't real.
Pauline Christianity is something completely different that what Yeshua Ben Yosef preached. Gnostic Christianity is something completely different yet again. Which is true? Who knows? Who am I to judge what happens between someone else and the Divine?
I think these are the wrong questions. Christians are much nicer when they aren't the only game around. From what little I've seen, the same applies to Muslims.
I think what matters is how we treat others, especially others who do not share our faith and culture. Ramming it down other's throat by force will cause resentment. That's where some monotheists go wrong. It's not that they have the True Faith™, its that no other faith can be allowed. Because of their Greater Understanding and enlightenment, they can break society's rule for the Greater Good. Thou shalt not dissent.
Climate change alarmists stole the game lock, stock, and barrel. It's common for some of the radical feminists too. If anything, I think it indicates a weakness in the argument. Their faith isn't strong enough, they can't convince others, so it must be forced.
Getting back to Christianity, how much would history have changed if Constantine hadn't made it the state faith? How would it have developed if it had stayed one faith among many? How much of the Official® was really about politics and controlling the populace?
Could it be that control is really the issue?❞
NeoNotes are the selected comments that I made on other boards, in email, or in response to articles where I could not respond directly.
“The Christians and the Pagans”
Monday, 25Dec2017
“Good men don’t need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many.”— Doctor Who, A Good Man Goes to War
NeoNotes - style and a niche market
Sunday, 26Nov2017
For all of the evidence of Christian bigotry, there's tolerance and pluralism right there beside it.
Read More...NeoNotes — Somebody finally said the C word
Tuesday, 21Nov2017
This last week in free speech
Saturday, 19Aug2017
“Unity in things Necessary, Liberty in things Unnecessary, and Charity in all.”— Richard Baxter
Absolutely maybe sort of - updated
Tuesday, 01Aug2017
Now, should I reject Bonewits and all he stood for because he and I didn't agree?
Read More...Political assumption
Tuesday, 11Jul2017
“Over the years however I have noticed a disheartening trend in the community. And that trend is what I refer to as political assumption. What I mean is that what seems like a large degree of practitioners of the Wicca faith and other similar earth based religious belief systems automatically pigeon hole everyone else in the faith as being politically a democrat or of some other left leaning ideology. Many attacks have been directed at me over the years for my right leaning political beliefs by many people who know me very little or not at all. Well, I actually do lean politically right; however, I consider myself a right leaning Independent.>snip<
I have been personally attacked en mass on a number of occasions to the point of people screen copying my personal opinions, taking them from other conversations and importing them to their social justice warrior sites, and then trying to get people to gang up on me for my deeply held (conservative) pagan viewpoints. Some going so far as to sending my viewpoints directly to well known individuals in the magickal community to show them how much of an "evil" person I am. I do equally find it a cowardly thing to do when I have the strongest feeling that these social justice warrior types could not muster the courage to say this stuff to my face under the fear that they would receive a serious beat down.”— Douglas Helvie, On Preconceived Pagan/Wiccan Political Affiliations
Beyond patriotism
Tuesday, 04Jul2017
❝I look for the Divine in every woman I meet. Can you think of a better way to find people who are honorable, passionate and reasoning at the same time?❞
— NeoWayland
No one
Tuesday, 16May2017
“I'm taking my dreams back. You can share them if you want. But don't buy into this sacrifice "for the greater good."”Read More...— NeoWayland, Why does your enlightenment demand that I sacrifice?
Solitary
Wednesday, 10May2017
❝Do I think I can change the universe? I already have. Can I make it better? Maybe.❞
— NeoWayland
Institution vs. individual choice
Monday, 08May2017
“There is an arc there: a vector. It tells a story of steadily increasing individual choice about religious belief and expression, and as a result, steadily decreasing subscription to old religious systems that clash with both modern values and humanity's growing body of accumulated knowledge.”— Mark Green, Is Paganism Dying?
Intimacy
Monday, 01May2017
Speaking of athamés
Wednesday, 26Apr2017
Chas S. Clifton, one of my favorite pagan writers, has a piece called The Story of Three Athames.
So I'm pointing it out.
You should go read it now.
So I'm pointing it out.
You should go read it now.
NeoNotes — Ecology vs environmentalism
Sunday, 23Apr2017
“Morality in sexual relations, when it is free from superstition, consists essentially in respect for the other person, and unwillingness to use that person solely as a means of personal gratification, without regard to his or her desires.”— Bertrand Russell
Juicy sexy messy
Tuesday, 18Apr2017
❝Let me tell you about who is the ultimate model of strong women in my family.❞Read More...
Really real pagan
Tuesday, 11Apr2017
❝I have this mythical construct in my head of a bonfire with people I would like to hang out with, and maybe discuss matters large and small.❞— NeoWayland, Touchstones along the path
NeoNotes — “J'accuse ...!” - updated
Saturday, 08Apr2017
❝I make it a practice to never call it history until a year and a day after the event.❞— NeoWayland
What does that have to do with greeting the sun?
Tuesday, 28Mar2017
I'm winter-born, so a good snow always touches my soul in a quiet joyful way. I could watch it for hours. I did watch it for hours.
Read More...Signs
Monday, 27Feb2017
❝Faith cannot be given. Faith cannot be taken. To mean anything at all, faith must be chosen freely.❞— NeoWayland
Revising my expectations
Monday, 31Oct2016
Neighborhood pagan
Wednesday, 19Oct2016
How we treat the Other may be the defining mark of a civilization. How we treat civilization may be the second defining mark of an individual.
"I. Was. Different." Some outgrow it. Others Want To Be Noticed. Still others DEMAND attention.
I never have understood why someone would wear ritual garb in public. It probably has something to do with crossover with the SCA, the RenFaire crowd, and cosplay. But these things don't have pockets. Where do you keep things like your keys, your wallet, and your smart phone? In my case, there are even fewer pockets in my ritual garb.
It's not that hard to "freak the mundanes." But does that mean that people will trust you? Can you trust them? And yes, there will be times you need to trust someone who doesn't share your beliefs.
Or your victimhood.
We should discuss that too. I've said before you should not draw power from victimhood. It draws on the pity of others and will probably fade the more you depend on it.
So if your paganism can't depend on how weird you are or how much a victim you are, what should it depend on?
How about your connection to Nature? Magick may be about changing the world, but paganism is about finding the place where you balance.
You start by being a good neighbor. Not just to the plants and the creatures and the four-foots around you, but to your fellow humans. Those humans are important.
Yes, really.
Humans are a part of the World. We're not separate.
And that means you should trust your neighbors. That they should trust you. You won't get that with a six inch pentagram and ritual garb. You won't get that with "mysterious" symbols painted on your house. You won't get that if you are too strange.
How we treat our culture may be the defining mark of an adult.
Are you ready?
"I. Was. Different." Some outgrow it. Others Want To Be Noticed. Still others DEMAND attention.
I never have understood why someone would wear ritual garb in public. It probably has something to do with crossover with the SCA, the RenFaire crowd, and cosplay. But these things don't have pockets. Where do you keep things like your keys, your wallet, and your smart phone? In my case, there are even fewer pockets in my ritual garb.
It's not that hard to "freak the mundanes." But does that mean that people will trust you? Can you trust them? And yes, there will be times you need to trust someone who doesn't share your beliefs.
Or your victimhood.
We should discuss that too. I've said before you should not draw power from victimhood. It draws on the pity of others and will probably fade the more you depend on it.
So if your paganism can't depend on how weird you are or how much a victim you are, what should it depend on?
How about your connection to Nature? Magick may be about changing the world, but paganism is about finding the place where you balance.
You start by being a good neighbor. Not just to the plants and the creatures and the four-foots around you, but to your fellow humans. Those humans are important.
Yes, really.
Humans are a part of the World. We're not separate.
And that means you should trust your neighbors. That they should trust you. You won't get that with a six inch pentagram and ritual garb. You won't get that with "mysterious" symbols painted on your house. You won't get that if you are too strange.
How we treat our culture may be the defining mark of an adult.
Are you ready?
NeoNotes — Witchcraft as rebellion
Saturday, 15Oct2016
Black & Blue
Wednesday, 05Oct2016
… taking a separate name shows dedication to your faith when you are initiated.
Read More...NeoNotes — SRW
Sunday, 02Oct2016
❝Sex without the emotional connection is masturbation. And just as fulfilling.❞Read More...
NeoNotes — The name thing
Sunday, 02Oct2016
Because this post discusses child sexuality, the entry text has been removed from the front page and the category pages. Click the post title above or the link below to load.
Read More...Taproot: Taboo
Wednesday, 14Sep2016
You're thinking of magick as cheat codes that let you get around universal rules.
Read More...NeoNotes — Nothing supernatural exists
Thursday, 08Sep2016
NeoNotes — Origin of Wicca
Tuesday, 05Jul2016
NeoNotes — What witch?
Tuesday, 21Jun2016
I don't think animals should be killed for ritual use. I have issues with animals being killed for food. It's why I still pray before meals. I'm honoring their sacrifice even though I know they don't understand.
Read More...Religion and politics
Tuesday, 03May2016
Hold her hands, gently, almost like a caress. Tell her how you feel about her. Tell her how you feel when you are with her. Do it again in thirteen minutes, precisely.
Read More...Collecting pelts
Tuesday, 16Feb2016
Mom ended up with a broken clavicle, a punctured lung, massive bruising, and some confusion.
Read More...Earth centered
Tuesday, 01Dec2015
You can see that politics corrupts pretty much any religion, faith, or path you’d care to name.
Read More...A dangerous pagan
Tuesday, 01Dec2015
No, I am not quite foolish enough to do it on my own. I don’t know enough about explosives and I don’t own an anvil.
Read More...Political pagans
Friday, 27Nov2015
Usually when ravens group together, it’s up on fences or power lines or rooftops
Read More...Caution - Watch Out
Friday, 06Nov2015
Naked pagans & sex - updated
Thursday, 15Oct2015
Outstanding
Tuesday, 21Jul2015
Religion
Tuesday, 07Jul2015
Hermit and the noise
Monday, 15Jun2015
No dissent, or The content of his character
Sunday, 07Jun2015
“A real man loves strong women, whether as lovers or just as friends, because weak ones are boring, often parasitical, and make the worst exes.”— Isaac Bonewits
Earth Day & politics
Tuesday, 21Apr2015
Statement on the Environment
Tuesday, 31Mar2015
❝The universe is written in mathematics. The Mystery is written in poetry. We're born where the two meet.
At the crossroads.❞— NeoWayland, Kissed by the Lady Moon
Bestest
Wednesday, 25Mar2015
Speaking of the way that one idea links to another, I can’t help but notice a conflict. And a song.
Read More...Do Be Do Be Do
Tuesday, 17Mar2015
From classic philosophy to classic virtue, Paganism's best hope depends on what we choose to put out in the World - updated
Read More...Don't mix religion with politics
Monday, 16Feb2015
The Pope and his Pagan Christians
Sunday, 09Nov2014
On that Pagan community thing
Sunday, 05Sep2010
Right or Write
Tuesday, 24Aug2010
I'm going to leave it alone
Monday, 23Aug2010
“Even when we are nude, we hide our bodies in shame. Every minute of every day.”— Why Be Socially Nude? from Family Skinnydippers
Yesterday's news…
Tuesday, 29Jun2010
h4 class="blurb">I don't have a stake in that fight. Or the other three either. Read More...
Pagans against sexual abuse
Tuesday, 18May2010
A funny
Sunday, 09May2010
My journey to and from a funeral reminds me of the world outside artificial light
Read More...The Authority Problem
Wednesday, 21Apr2010
The roots of the Old Breed
Monday, 08Mar2010
Why do I do it? Internet debates, emails, and online Pagan groups
Thursday, 18Feb2010
This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C65989237/E20100218113503
I am what I am - updated
Let's face it, getting involved in these prolonged internet debates isn't exactly the healthiest behavior out there. When it comes to relieving frustration, not only to I have perfectly reasonable poly-resin skull to talk to, I have bed companions who are more than willing to let me indulge my odd tastes. Perhaps not as much as I would like, but certainly more than occasionally.
I wrote about it some in Almost the last advocate at Pagan Vigil.
I won't kid you, there's a part of me that grooves on taking someone down a notch or two using nothing more than logic and their own arguments. I've also been known to go searching, well, not exactly for fights but for places where someone is likely to trip over their own words and pretensions and fights will break out. It's sick, unhealthy, and I try to find other ways to handle frustrations these days.
I also know that it's unhealthy to use kinky sex as a substitute, but them's the breaks.
But when it comes to Pagans and small "L" libertarians, I take it personally. Particularly if I care about the group. If anyone should know about the dangers of scapegoating, it's Pagans. We know that Pagans aren't crouching naked in the bushes, waiting to rape your kids or sacrifice your cat under the next full moon. Or maybe it is the other way around.
But we also know that there are more than enough people who believe that Pagans are there to do exactly that. And it doesn't help that some of us are casual about nudity and sex to begin with.
I don't believe that modern Pagans can let ourselves become that which we might fear. Just because someone calling themselves a Christian did something horrible 1739 years ago doesn't mean we can afford to label someone else a monster today.
The thing is, if we insist that someone is innocent until proven guilty, that's a sword that cuts both ways. It means that we can't allow ourselves the luxury of scapegoats, even in the secret places where they will never know we did it. We'll know, and that will be enough to undo our goals.
I've given up internet debates these days unless it is in a REALLY Good Cause. It's not that I don't want to, the gods know that I want it bad. And I am very very good. My own weird sense of ethics and responsibility insists that I tell my opponents I am good. Or maybe it is just my Coyote-warped sense of humor. Let me share something I wrote in a private email.
I know, it doesn't say much for my character and desires that I indulge in these confrontations, even if it's only occasionally.
But wouldn't you rather me do it in support of honor than wily-nily? It's a tradeoff.
Yes, that is one of mine. Great for last stands or True Beliefs. For maximum effect, plant your feet, flex your knees, and face things head on. Say it out loud.
When all your choices are bad, sometimes the only choice is to listen to your heart and embrace your dream.
_____
Update - Yes, the Otherkin thing is an example of how I didn't follow these principles. It's also a mild example of what happens when things go wrong. Lesson learned.
I wrote about it some in Almost the last advocate at Pagan Vigil.
❝Live and let live works mostly. When that doesn't work, KYFHO comes through. But usually there is no one else willing to make a stand. Unpopular religions? I'll defend them to the end until they impose on someone else. Same with political groups. Or rights groups.
The one thing I insist on is that free choice is a cornerstone. Including the rights of the members to walk away if they choose. As long as they do that and don't force themselves on any others, I believe that they are free to do what they want.
ARE, not should be.
Because that is the right I expect for myself, and it's not a right unless everyone else has it too. Otherwise it's a privilege taken at someone else's expense.
Even though it means that I end up defending ideas and practices that I find questionable at best, I can't do anything else and stay true to myself.❞
I won't kid you, there's a part of me that grooves on taking someone down a notch or two using nothing more than logic and their own arguments. I've also been known to go searching, well, not exactly for fights but for places where someone is likely to trip over their own words and pretensions and fights will break out. It's sick, unhealthy, and I try to find other ways to handle frustrations these days.
I also know that it's unhealthy to use kinky sex as a substitute, but them's the breaks.
But when it comes to Pagans and small "L" libertarians, I take it personally. Particularly if I care about the group. If anyone should know about the dangers of scapegoating, it's Pagans. We know that Pagans aren't crouching naked in the bushes, waiting to rape your kids or sacrifice your cat under the next full moon. Or maybe it is the other way around.
But we also know that there are more than enough people who believe that Pagans are there to do exactly that. And it doesn't help that some of us are casual about nudity and sex to begin with.
I don't believe that modern Pagans can let ourselves become that which we might fear. Just because someone calling themselves a Christian did something horrible 1739 years ago doesn't mean we can afford to label someone else a monster today.
The thing is, if we insist that someone is innocent until proven guilty, that's a sword that cuts both ways. It means that we can't allow ourselves the luxury of scapegoats, even in the secret places where they will never know we did it. We'll know, and that will be enough to undo our goals.
I've given up internet debates these days unless it is in a REALLY Good Cause. It's not that I don't want to, the gods know that I want it bad. And I am very very good. My own weird sense of ethics and responsibility insists that I tell my opponents I am good. Or maybe it is just my Coyote-warped sense of humor. Let me share something I wrote in a private email.
❝By insisting that everyone be judged by their actions, I'm also invoking civilized behavior. If I show fair play and they don't play nice, I'm under no obligation to respect their rules as I deal with them. Civilized means that no one can threaten force or try to intimidate someone. Depending on how mischievous I'm feeling, I might even insist on no insults. If they can't compete under those conditions, that doesn't say much for their opinions or their cause.
I just stacked the odds heavily in my favor. I already know I can probably argue most people under the table and three times on Sunday, and that is at even odds.
If someone doesn't "play nice," they just ceded moral authority and I am justified in my actions. No one watching could say otherwise. After all, I dealt with them fairly at first.
Even then, I probably wouldn't "defeat" them or "destroy" them. I wouldn't want to create martyrs. Instead I would defuse them, defang them, render them harmless.
It's hard to scare someone if they are busy chuckling❞
I know, it doesn't say much for my character and desires that I indulge in these confrontations, even if it's only occasionally.
But wouldn't you rather me do it in support of honor than wily-nily? It's a tradeoff.
I am what I am
And the man that I am
Demands what I dream
I am what I am
And the man that I am
Demands what I dream
I am what I am
Yes, that is one of mine. Great for last stands or True Beliefs. For maximum effect, plant your feet, flex your knees, and face things head on. Say it out loud.
When all your choices are bad, sometimes the only choice is to listen to your heart and embrace your dream.
_____
Update - Yes, the Otherkin thing is an example of how I didn't follow these principles. It's also a mild example of what happens when things go wrong. Lesson learned.
Avalon Cares redux
Monday, 01Feb2010
This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C1939071231/E20100201133009
Corrected web address
I should have double-checked and updated this, but I didn't. I missed updating the web address on my previous entry (fixed now).
Avalon Cares is the ongoing non-profit relief effort organized by the Officers of Avalon. It's a benevolent association of Pagan emergency professionals. They've got an effort going for earthquake relief in Hati.
If you want to support the Pagan community and help others, this is a good way to start.
Avalon Cares is the ongoing non-profit relief effort organized by the Officers of Avalon. It's a benevolent association of Pagan emergency professionals. They've got an effort going for earthquake relief in Hati.
If you want to support the Pagan community and help others, this is a good way to start.
On Christians and Pagan tolerance
Tuesday, 05Jan2010
Packing away the memory
Wednesday, 07Oct2009
“We are the Pagans who have moved on”
Sunday, 02Aug2009
These blog entries have been reformatted and entered into the current directories. Redirect pages have been placed in the old locations.
Read More...So what's a Technopagan anyway?
And what do they yearn for?
And what do they yearn for?
Tuesday, 24Mar2009
Of gods and men
(updated)
(updated)
Tuesday, 17Mar2009
Sex & the Modern Pagan
Sunday, 21Dec2008
I took a couple of days off and went to the Kaibab for some retreat and renewal
Read More...Why a Technopagan?
Tuesday, 09Dec2008
Depression and the Modern Pagan
Tuesday, 25Nov2008
Love on the rocks
Friday, 30Nov2007
Is the weirdness really wyrd?
Sunday, 04Nov2007
Observing what others think of “Pagan Community”
Tuesday, 13Feb2007
Lost Wonderers
Tuesday, 13Feb2007
“When you think of “driftwood” you usually don’t imagine a hollow log big enough to stand up inside.”
Read More...Flake off
Tuesday, 21Nov2006
❝It always worries me when I can hear the capitals in what other people say, even if it is only what they are typing on a computer screen.❞— NeoWayland, "Here I come to save the Day"
Correllian ripples
Saturday, 28Oct2006
Witchschool.com no longer affiliated with Correllian Nativist Church International
Wednesday, 04Oct2006
“Here I come to save the Day”
Tuesday, 01Aug2006
This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C65989237/E20060802051541
Why do some Pagans believe they are destined to save the world?
The posts on discipline and Indigo kids got me in the mood to go exploring the Pagan web again, just to see what is happening. It's getting harder and harder to do that anonymously, but I still have a few technopagan tricks up my sleeve.
Much of what I saw hasn't really changed in the last few years. There are still very few experienced Pagans who are willing to go online, at least publicly. There are definite trends towards political correctness and silencing dissent. And the most visible Pagans online aren't necessarily the ones that anyone should be listening to.
Although that doesn't just apply to Pagans. Imagine if Christians only listened to Jesse Jackson or Pat Robertson.
To me at least, the most disturbing thing is the growth of the "Pagans will save the World" theme. Save the world from what, I am not quite sure, but there are some out there who are only a few steps away from conquering in the Name of the Goddess for the Betterment of Humanity. Or at least trying.
It always worries me when I can hear the capitals in what other people say, even if it is only what they are typing on a computer screen.
I am not quite sure where this messiah complex comes from. I only know that it is there. I get frustrated when I deal with newbies. Online, my experience is "one upped" by some kid who read the "right" books and started "practicing" six whole months ago. It's times like that when I understand exactly what Oberon Ravenhart-Zell wants to do with his so-called Grey Council.
Intentionally or not, this "save the world" thing comes across as recycled Christianity. I'm not sure that is what they need, although they believe it's what they want.
*sighs*
And that is the rub, isn't? You can't tell them until they are ready to believe it. Even if I could, I am not sure I should stop them from tripping and falling. Although the gods know I am tempted. I understand now what the Blessed who were around me were saying when I "broke out," although I ignored them then.
I'm pretty sure that the World can take care of Herself, maybe with a little help from her Consort.
It's the rest of us I am not so sure about.
Much of what I saw hasn't really changed in the last few years. There are still very few experienced Pagans who are willing to go online, at least publicly. There are definite trends towards political correctness and silencing dissent. And the most visible Pagans online aren't necessarily the ones that anyone should be listening to.
Although that doesn't just apply to Pagans. Imagine if Christians only listened to Jesse Jackson or Pat Robertson.
To me at least, the most disturbing thing is the growth of the "Pagans will save the World" theme. Save the world from what, I am not quite sure, but there are some out there who are only a few steps away from conquering in the Name of the Goddess for the Betterment of Humanity. Or at least trying.
It always worries me when I can hear the capitals in what other people say, even if it is only what they are typing on a computer screen.
I am not quite sure where this messiah complex comes from. I only know that it is there. I get frustrated when I deal with newbies. Online, my experience is "one upped" by some kid who read the "right" books and started "practicing" six whole months ago. It's times like that when I understand exactly what Oberon Ravenhart-Zell wants to do with his so-called Grey Council.
Intentionally or not, this "save the world" thing comes across as recycled Christianity. I'm not sure that is what they need, although they believe it's what they want.
*sighs*
And that is the rub, isn't? You can't tell them until they are ready to believe it. Even if I could, I am not sure I should stop them from tripping and falling. Although the gods know I am tempted. I understand now what the Blessed who were around me were saying when I "broke out," although I ignored them then.
I'm pretty sure that the World can take care of Herself, maybe with a little help from her Consort.
It's the rest of us I am not so sure about.
Discipline, the Modern Pagan, and power from victimhood
Friday, 21Jul2006
This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C65989237/E20060722013450
What makes the so many modern pagans fluffy? And why don't they seem to want more?
There is an old saying that the difficult truths are the only ones that must be told.
I've tried several times in the last couple of weeks to write this post. It keeps coming out wrong. So I am going to sit here and hammer this one out once and for all so I can concentrate on other things that I want to say. It's probably going to be shorter than I wanted, but there are only so many times I can rewrite the thing.
Before I get too deep, I want to say that I absolutely despise classifying people, their abilities, and their accomplishments based on membership in some group. I am an individualist. As far as I am concerned, we are human. To understand the poisonous mindset, it's necessary to put that viewpoint aside for a bit and wade into meaningless yet influential group distinctions.
I read Shelby Steele's excellent White Guilt. While not a pagan book, it gave me excellent insight into American life over the last few decades, and helped focus some of my own realizations. Most of it doesn't apply in a pagan context, with one very important exception.
The rise of the popular forms of modern paganism are tied into the rise of the feminist movement that followed the success of the 1960s civil rights movement. Feminism (and paganism through feminism) borrowed some of the best and worst ideas of the civil rights movement for it's own purposes.
One idea was power through victimhood because of past crimes committed against one group by members of another.
Before you tell me that doesn't apply, go find someone talking about "Never again the Burning Times!"
For "power through victimhood" to be successful, it's not enough to have an "oppressed victim," there also has to be a public acknowledgment of guilt by the powerful and a lingering guilt. "PTV" gains it's moral authority only through guilt, otherwise it runs smack dab into the morals and ethics of the majority.
To simplify, American blacks had a legitimate grievance. That isn't necessarily so for American feminists, and it probably isn't so for American pagans. It is the difference between oppression and repression.
Paganism was a good way for repressed women to explore the Sacred Feminine and experience the Divine instead of having it handed to them through a patriarchal framework. Since many pagans celebrate the Female Aspects of Divinity, of course we took joy as the ladies took center stage and found themselves.
But all things have destruction wrapped in creation. The power wasn't in the victimhood. It never was. Overcoming victimhood could be the first gate to power. Some took power from the victimhood itself, never realizing that their "strength" depended entirely on the guilty pity of others. Without that guilt and pity, the "moral authority" collapsed.
This wasn't just in paganism of course. Much of Western culture and society was undergoing the same growing pangs. So to preserve the "power through victimhood" of certain groups, permanent victim groups were enshrined. Blacks first. Then other minority groups. Then women (of course). And finally alternative religions. With a pecking order firmly established, it became the Progressive Thing to make sure that the victim groups and the pecking order were universally established. If some members of the victim groups weren't quite good enough, that was okay, they had been through enough. Allowances would be made.
That in turn introduced our second and third tier problems. Members of the victim groups weren't expect to be "as good" as the majority. Excuses were made for their failures. They were never held personally responsible.
Imagine that. By virtue of victimhood and belonging to a recognized victim group, someone could be excused from being an adult and taking responsibility for themselves.
I want to stress that the victimhood was never universal. Many people soon learned to move beyond victimhood and into individual excellence.
But for those who didn't, they never realized it was a trap. Some of them still don't.
Fast forward a few decades.
Now some areas have schools that cherish victimhood of certain groups before the kids are old enough to understand if they are even victims at all. Being a social victim means that others will look out for you and that you are not fully human.
Nor can you be fully trusted. Even if your victimhood grants you "moral authority" and exceptions from the rules.
Other kids see that being a victim is the easy path. Even if you don't know the answers, they will be provided to you in a timely manner. And if you can't be bothered to learn them this time around, that is okay. You've had a hard victimhood.
The end result are people who not only don't know the answers, but expect those answers to be provided on demand. And they want a second chance to take any tests, only this time with crib sheets.
It's not their fault that this is how they were taught.
It's their fault if they do not change once their path demands more.
Master the discipline or be mastered by the victimhood.
Bright & Dark Blessings, everyone.
I've tried several times in the last couple of weeks to write this post. It keeps coming out wrong. So I am going to sit here and hammer this one out once and for all so I can concentrate on other things that I want to say. It's probably going to be shorter than I wanted, but there are only so many times I can rewrite the thing.
Before I get too deep, I want to say that I absolutely despise classifying people, their abilities, and their accomplishments based on membership in some group. I am an individualist. As far as I am concerned, we are human. To understand the poisonous mindset, it's necessary to put that viewpoint aside for a bit and wade into meaningless yet influential group distinctions.
I read Shelby Steele's excellent White Guilt. While not a pagan book, it gave me excellent insight into American life over the last few decades, and helped focus some of my own realizations. Most of it doesn't apply in a pagan context, with one very important exception.
The rise of the popular forms of modern paganism are tied into the rise of the feminist movement that followed the success of the 1960s civil rights movement. Feminism (and paganism through feminism) borrowed some of the best and worst ideas of the civil rights movement for it's own purposes.
One idea was power through victimhood because of past crimes committed against one group by members of another.
Before you tell me that doesn't apply, go find someone talking about "Never again the Burning Times!"
For "power through victimhood" to be successful, it's not enough to have an "oppressed victim," there also has to be a public acknowledgment of guilt by the powerful and a lingering guilt. "PTV" gains it's moral authority only through guilt, otherwise it runs smack dab into the morals and ethics of the majority.
To simplify, American blacks had a legitimate grievance. That isn't necessarily so for American feminists, and it probably isn't so for American pagans. It is the difference between oppression and repression.
Paganism was a good way for repressed women to explore the Sacred Feminine and experience the Divine instead of having it handed to them through a patriarchal framework. Since many pagans celebrate the Female Aspects of Divinity, of course we took joy as the ladies took center stage and found themselves.
But all things have destruction wrapped in creation. The power wasn't in the victimhood. It never was. Overcoming victimhood could be the first gate to power. Some took power from the victimhood itself, never realizing that their "strength" depended entirely on the guilty pity of others. Without that guilt and pity, the "moral authority" collapsed.
This wasn't just in paganism of course. Much of Western culture and society was undergoing the same growing pangs. So to preserve the "power through victimhood" of certain groups, permanent victim groups were enshrined. Blacks first. Then other minority groups. Then women (of course). And finally alternative religions. With a pecking order firmly established, it became the Progressive Thing to make sure that the victim groups and the pecking order were universally established. If some members of the victim groups weren't quite good enough, that was okay, they had been through enough. Allowances would be made.
That in turn introduced our second and third tier problems. Members of the victim groups weren't expect to be "as good" as the majority. Excuses were made for their failures. They were never held personally responsible.
Imagine that. By virtue of victimhood and belonging to a recognized victim group, someone could be excused from being an adult and taking responsibility for themselves.
I want to stress that the victimhood was never universal. Many people soon learned to move beyond victimhood and into individual excellence.
But for those who didn't, they never realized it was a trap. Some of them still don't.
Fast forward a few decades.
Now some areas have schools that cherish victimhood of certain groups before the kids are old enough to understand if they are even victims at all. Being a social victim means that others will look out for you and that you are not fully human.
Nor can you be fully trusted. Even if your victimhood grants you "moral authority" and exceptions from the rules.
Other kids see that being a victim is the easy path. Even if you don't know the answers, they will be provided to you in a timely manner. And if you can't be bothered to learn them this time around, that is okay. You've had a hard victimhood.
The end result are people who not only don't know the answers, but expect those answers to be provided on demand. And they want a second chance to take any tests, only this time with crib sheets.
It's not their fault that this is how they were taught.
It's their fault if they do not change once their path demands more.
Master the discipline or be mastered by the victimhood.
Bright & Dark Blessings, everyone.
Eclecticism, Discipline, & Mastery
Tuesday, 04Jul2006
“At the end of the day, some things can't be faked.”— Leverage, “The Corkscrew Job”
In the still of the night
Thursday, 25May2006
This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C65989237/E20060525233957
My journey to and from a funeral reminds me of the world outside artificial light
I did some driving in rural Arizona and New Mexico this last week.
One of the big differences between urban areas and rural areas is the amount of light at night. Depending on the size of the town or city, even as little as thirty miles is enough to reveal a whole other world.
Headlights are visible for miles if the road is in view. The shadows wrap around you so you feel like you could just reach out the window and gently stroke it. The desert night air has it's own scents and promises. The plants rustle in your side vision which seems a notch or two sharper. The land hints at it's shape rather than revealing.
And then the stars. Oh gods, the stars.
In a city, you see a few twinkles of the stronger stars, but that is nothing compared to what you see when you get away from the city lights. Suddenly the words "Milky Way" make sense. When I have been away from all the stars, my first instinct on a clear night is to strip down and bathe in all that silver starlight.
It's not just lights. In the desert and away from the roads and cars, you swear you can hear every single sound for miles around. Maybe it's just psychological. You're away from the normal stimulus so you pay extra close attention to the ones you do sense.
There are times I am very much in hermit mode and there are reasons for that. I can't tell you the name of the American Idol contestants. I have no idea what the Top 40 is these days. I have no interest in having Dr. Phil solve my problems on national television. More importantly, I've no real desire to think about these subjects. But they wrap themselves around you, insidiously. It's all that most people talk about.
It's the same with religion, at least for the people who want to get noticed. Folks are so busy making noise for their gold stars that they don't pay attention to the "stillness of the soul." The Blessed recognize that as the place where your inner journey begins, the gateway to your higher selves.
So away from the churches every block, the people mouthing the noise they think the Divine wants to hear, the flood of television and radio evangelism, and away from all those bits that we humans like to wrap ourselves in, that is the where the inner soul can wake and the outer soul can sleep.
I need to go camping again soon I think.
One of the big differences between urban areas and rural areas is the amount of light at night. Depending on the size of the town or city, even as little as thirty miles is enough to reveal a whole other world.
Headlights are visible for miles if the road is in view. The shadows wrap around you so you feel like you could just reach out the window and gently stroke it. The desert night air has it's own scents and promises. The plants rustle in your side vision which seems a notch or two sharper. The land hints at it's shape rather than revealing.
And then the stars. Oh gods, the stars.
In a city, you see a few twinkles of the stronger stars, but that is nothing compared to what you see when you get away from the city lights. Suddenly the words "Milky Way" make sense. When I have been away from all the stars, my first instinct on a clear night is to strip down and bathe in all that silver starlight.
It's not just lights. In the desert and away from the roads and cars, you swear you can hear every single sound for miles around. Maybe it's just psychological. You're away from the normal stimulus so you pay extra close attention to the ones you do sense.
There are times I am very much in hermit mode and there are reasons for that. I can't tell you the name of the American Idol contestants. I have no idea what the Top 40 is these days. I have no interest in having Dr. Phil solve my problems on national television. More importantly, I've no real desire to think about these subjects. But they wrap themselves around you, insidiously. It's all that most people talk about.
It's the same with religion, at least for the people who want to get noticed. Folks are so busy making noise for their gold stars that they don't pay attention to the "stillness of the soul." The Blessed recognize that as the place where your inner journey begins, the gateway to your higher selves.
So away from the churches every block, the people mouthing the noise they think the Divine wants to hear, the flood of television and radio evangelism, and away from all those bits that we humans like to wrap ourselves in, that is the where the inner soul can wake and the outer soul can sleep.
I need to go camping again soon I think.
Reflections in a laptop screen
Monday, 06Mar2006
Paganism is not political
Monday, 02Jan2006
This is a page from the third version of Technopagan Yearnings. There are some formatting differences. Originally published at www.neowayland.com/C65989237/E20060103044338
Faith is a personal choice. So are politics. One does not define the other.
I'm getting very annoyed with this idea of "political pagans."
If you are lucky enough not to have had this inflicted on you yet, the idea is that all real pagans are naturally progressive and green. And if you are not progressive and green, then you can't possibly be a real pagan.
I was an environmentalist before the global warming movement hijacked environmentalism. Today you can barely mention environmentalism without bowing down before the global warming altar. Everything environmental must give way to the global warming agenda. When is the last time you saw a news story about water pollution or air pollution? But I have lost track of how many stories I have seen about global warming in the last year.
And of course, if you really care about Mother Gaia and Her children (and you can hear the capitalization in their voices) you are against poverty, injustice, and war. Unless the "enemy" is a wealthy Republican, then all bets are off.
What the blazes does ANY of this have to do with Paganism?
If you are a reconstructionist, I'm willing to bet that there are gods in your personal pantheon who were not only responsible for commerce, but probably invented coinage.
And dice games. Don't forget the dice games. VERY important foundation for commerce.
Now I happen to be very political. But my politics don't come because of my faith or my Patrons. Likewise, my faith isn't defined by my politics.
There are people I identify as part-time pagans and fluffy pagans, but not because of their politics. That is because of how they treat their faith.
If you are lucky enough not to have had this inflicted on you yet, the idea is that all real pagans are naturally progressive and green. And if you are not progressive and green, then you can't possibly be a real pagan.
I was an environmentalist before the global warming movement hijacked environmentalism. Today you can barely mention environmentalism without bowing down before the global warming altar. Everything environmental must give way to the global warming agenda. When is the last time you saw a news story about water pollution or air pollution? But I have lost track of how many stories I have seen about global warming in the last year.
And of course, if you really care about Mother Gaia and Her children (and you can hear the capitalization in their voices) you are against poverty, injustice, and war. Unless the "enemy" is a wealthy Republican, then all bets are off.
What the blazes does ANY of this have to do with Paganism?
If you are a reconstructionist, I'm willing to bet that there are gods in your personal pantheon who were not only responsible for commerce, but probably invented coinage.
And dice games. Don't forget the dice games. VERY important foundation for commerce.
Now I happen to be very political. But my politics don't come because of my faith or my Patrons. Likewise, my faith isn't defined by my politics.
There are people I identify as part-time pagans and fluffy pagans, but not because of their politics. That is because of how they treat their faith.
Belonging
Thursday, 08Dec2005
Otherkin
Tuesday, 06Dec2005
Religion and popular culture
Monday, 24Oct2005
This is what happens when you hit deadline and you can't think of anything to write. You bring out something from your poetry file. This started as a chant and developed into something else along the way.
Read More...Facing the True Believer™
Monday, 12Sep2005
Why some fail all the time and how they can start to turn it around, with a little help from Stan and Ollie
Read More...Memorial Day musings
Monday, 30May2005
Although I feel sex and combining sex with religion can be positive, I can't deny abuse by certain pagans.
Read More...“We've got trouble my friends…”
Monday, 30May2005
Calling yourself pagan
Monday, 16May2005
