Juliaki - ever heard of a guy named WMM? (name edited by NW for legal reasons)

NeoWayland - no

I think he's the guy that gets made fun of royally in 9 Lives
anyhow, the other big thing for me last week was listening him say that there are no practices that are being done by modern Craft people today that predate Gardner

sure it isn't MM? (name edited by NW for legal reasons)
and there should be a snort or two there

grins

okay, he has no web presence except for a dead link to Pentacle Magazine and a link to an author I am not familiar with

he tends to inhabit Yahoo groups until he gets debunked, kicked out, and has his stuff wiped

what is special about Mr MM other than the fact that he has overlooked about two hundred years of ceremonial magickal practice?
ah, I see
enough to rate a spot on my Watch List

he's apparently a bit of a legend, and I've now tangled swords with him, which is fun

is he like a good legend, a bad legend, or legendary in his own mind?

he claims that he knew Ron Hutton and was royally miffed that Ron wouldn't turn over the "secret" research to him, thus proving that every mystery out there is false because no one wants to put it before public or scientific scrutiny
he's just a whack job, but funny to run across due to his outrageous braggings

umm, Hutton was pretty open with his research. I mean there were a couple of holes, but most of it is because the information just isn't available

there's no doubt in my mind that Hutton was given "other" information that he was told not to share... apparently there's a lot of hints at things, but Hutton doesn't go and divulge the "good stuff"

like I said, not available
that is a very flexible phrase
grins

grins

the thing is, Hutton does provide enough to build a solid framework of serious scholarship, and the rest people shouldn't know anyway. I have no problem with a mystery religion. My problem is with who is sometimes chosen to guard the mystery
if it were available in a book, it would be on the internet within hours, which wouldn't do anybody any good

I can get behind that fully... but one thing that I think a lot of the anti-mystery crowd out there don't seem to get is that I could hand you a book or point you to a web page that has certain things, but without the introduction to the mystery itself, the information doesn't work

just because the technology exists to build a gun doesn't mean that there should be step by step instructions
exactly. You and I may differ on who should have access to the mysteries, but we don't differ on the need for inner and outer mysteries

absolutely...and quite frankly, there's a lot of mysteries that even if someone was willing to hand them to me, i wouldn't want...because they are mysteries I don't feel ready to have the burdenous blessing of

and since a good deal of the mystery is going to rely on what is already taught in the tradition, it is not going to make much sense to someone who doesn't have a framework to put it in

exactly....for instance (and I'm not giving you the whole thing nor the pronunciation nor the context), I could tell you that one thing I saw used recently was "XxxXx"
without the context, the whole thing, and the pronunciation, it's not going to do you a lot of good

and that tells me almost nothing
and I probably should put this in TPY. Do you mind?

everything except "(the actual name for XxxXx)"
grins