Juliaki - you know, some odd changes have happened to me since some of the stuff that happened in Feb.
one of those changes is that I find myself calling myself Pagan an awful lot less...it just doesn't seem to fit anymore for me

NeoWayland - that is interesting. Why do you think?

part of it is related to some of the transformation that occurred during the dedication rite...some of it is related to a few other things that occurred at Candlemas
but at this point, the religious/spiritual side of me is moving away from the more generalized Pagan roots and into a specific tradition... Pagan doesn't fit, but I am really and truly a witch

think I understand

the longer I stay in Lifestyles, the less "Pagan" and "Wiccan" sound right to my ears for anything resembling myself

well, I stopped trying to be a Wiccan some time ago. I suppose I call myself Pagan because I have no other name for it, but I will admit I don't "connect" to most of the folks out there who play at Paganism

nods
I think what really hit it home for me was spending the weekend with Andras and the folks from EarthSpirit Community

oh?

don't get me wrong...they're great folks...and Andras and Deidre's son Donovan is absolutely gorgeous

you have a very big but coming there don't you?

oh, but anyhow, their ideas about spirituality don't mesh with mine, and yet they are really the epitome of what being Pagan represents
sorry, was just remembering watching Donovan drum
(drool drool drool)

and other tingles too, huh?

oh good grief.... this guy had a harem around him for the whole weekend, but I got a personal introduction, which is pretty cool

smiles

I think Andras is interviewed in that "Being a Pagan" book.....hang on a sec

"I don't anthropomorphize Deity in any way. I don't worship "Gods and Goddesses" or the "Lord and Lady". Sometimes I will use specific symbols of specific deities that have been culturally established--the varioius archetypal deity forms that people ahve used over time. I will use them as symbols and as a way of tapping into a particular kind of energy. But I don't pray to them as something external to myself. I don't worship them or ask them to grant me a boon. To me a God or Goddess with a human form is a symbol that incorporates various aspects of reality and energy forms, ways of being conscious. The symbol holds that."
that's from Deidre

interesting thinking

and from Andras... (one of my original teachers said) "worship of the Universe through the medium of anthropomorphic deities that had a human guise and personality was the ultimate arrogance. This was a way of taking something that was really indescribable and transcends all human perception, and rather than acknowledging it and letting it be, we somehow try and fit it into a nice, easily digestable, human concept."

well, to a certain point, I agree
but the witch and magician in me is compelled to point out that if enough passion is concentrated into anything, it will take on a life of it's own
so even though Deity is beyond comprehension, the godmasks we create and use aren't

and I've stood in the presence of someone being a vessel for deity.... and I tell ya, there was absolutely no mistaking what I was facing because I stood face to face and toe to toe

I am just saying that a fair amount of what we think we know about Deity is in how we choose to frame our understanding. Not all of it certainly, but part of it
of course, I may be biased. I am used to thoughts literally wondering off on their own

nods
but after seeing how Andras and Deidre, who are lovely people, relate to the divine, I found that it wasn't something that I could work within

nods, no reason why you should. The are some very nice Roman Catholics, but to coin a phrase, "that ain't my god."
do you mind if i copy/paste some of this conversation into TPY?

oh, go for it

just I think it is interesting, and a nice fit with Modern Adult Pagans, I won't if you have problems with it

I don't have a problem at all

ok

Andras and Deidre are great folks, and I respect them....which is why seeing how well they embrace their Paganism is why I don't call myself Pagan at this point, plus the other stuff that occurred before

nods, makes sense

well, now you have got me wondering

how so?

If you are not pagan and I only call myself pagan because I don't have another name for it, what does that make us?

a good question